Mr. D‘Herde, at the 13th International Engine Congress the future perspectives for combustion engines will once again be a hot topic. What is the key message you want to bring to Baden-Baden?
Timothy D’Herde: The key message is simple: For Toyota, the focus is on decarbonization – not a specific drivetrain technology. Our ultimate goal is carbon neutrality, and on the way to that goal we need several technological pathways. That is why we pursue a consistent multi-pathway strategy with hybrid vehicles, plug-in hybrids, battery electric vehicles, fuel-cell electric vehicles and combustion engines running on carbon-neutral fuels. Each of these technologies has a role to play, depending on region, infrastructure and customer needs.
Many political debates in Europe boil down to a simple yes-or-no question on battery electric vehicles. Why are you insisting so strongly on technological diversity?
Timothy D’Herde: Market conditions are not the same everywhere. Even within Europe the differences are huge. For example, Norway has a very mature charging infrastructure and an almost fully renewable power mix. In such an environment, a BEV is the obvious choice today. In other countries, for example in parts of Southern Europe or in markets with a coal-dominated grid, the picture changes. There, a highly efficient hybrid can be the better solution over the full life cycle.
We must always look at two things at the same time: real customer usage patterns and the full life-cycle picture – from energy generation and vehicle production to the use phase. Only then do we get an honest view of the true climate impact.
Toyota is seen as a hybrid pioneer – yet some critics say the company has been too slow on BEVs. What is your response?
Timothy D’Herde: Actually, we introduced our first mass-market hybrid in 1997. Since then we have sold more than 32 million hybrids electric vehicles worldwide and are now at the fifth generation of our hybrid powertrains. That long experience enables us to offer very efficient and affordable systems – and it has already resulted in a massive cumulative CO2 reduction.
Sticking to hybrid technology does not mean we do not believe in battery electric vehicles. Quite the opposite: we clearly see BEV volumes growing, even though they remain below the initial forecasts. We are responding to this trend by expanding our BEV line-up and preparing for local production in Europe. Our principle is “produce locally, sell locally”. In a couple of years we will be building battery electric vehicles in Europe to serve the growing demand.
At the same time you continue to invest in combustion engines. How does that fit with the climate-neutrality target?
Timothy D’Herde: First of all, combustion engines will remain in the global vehicle fleet for many years to come. From a climate perspective it would be irresponsible not to keep improving their efficiency. Secondly, are not only focusing to improve both performance and fuel economy, while being more compact than the current generation engines, we are also considering how these engines can operate on renewable, carbon-neutral fuels.
Our hybrid portfolio with highly efficient Atkinson-cycle engines is one example. At the same time we are investing in high-performance powertrains – as demonstrated by the new GR GT model with V8 Twinturbo Hybrid powertrain that we launched in early December. For Toyota, “mobility for all” also includes “happiness for all”, which means emotional, fun-to-drive products. These cars can and must contribute to decarbonization, for instance by using carbon-neutral fuels.
What do you expect from European policy and regulation?
Timothy D’Herde: I do hope that policymakers will embrace a more technology-open approach. If we are serious about carbon neutrality, we need room for different pathways – including carbon-neutral fuels and second-generation biofuels that do not compete with food production.
For us, technology openness means: set clear climate targets, but do not narrow down the way to reach them to a single drivetrain solution. This would allow manufacturers to develop a range of options and offer the best combination for each region and use case.
Associations argue that comparing BEVs and combustion engines purely on tailpipe emissions is misleading. Do you agree?
Timothy D’Herde: We believe that looking beyond tailpipe emissions is essential. You typically move from a tailpipe view to a well-to-wheel assessment and ultimately to a full life-cycle assessment. The latter is complex because many industries – from energy to steel – need to decarbonize in parallel. But this is where we need to go. Only a life-cycle perspective reveals which technology actually results in the lowest CO2 emissions in a given region.
Many observers remain skeptical about hydrogen in passenger cars – too expensive, too little infrastructure. Why is Toyota still committed to fuel-cell vehicles?
Timothy D’Herde: We are realistic: in the short and medium term we do not expect fuel-cell vehicles to achieve double-digit market shares in the passenger-car segment. The challenges regarding cost and infrastructure are well known. At the same time, fuel cells offer clear advantages in certain segments, particularly for heavy-duty trucks and light commercial vehicles with demanding range requirements.
One strong argument is modularity. Our fuel-cell system is designed as a module that can be used in different applications. We are running several public projects using this module for commercial vehicles and other mobile or stationary systems. Paris is a good example: several thousand fuel-cell taxis are operating there, supplied by a small number of hydrogen stations – a working “eco-cluster” where supply and demand are balanced locally.
You also mentioned hydrogen combustion engines. Is that more than a motor sports experiment?
Timothy D’Herde: Motor sports is a very valuable development lab for us. We use it to test hydrogen combustion engines under extreme conditions and to learn about performance, durability and emissions. We then transfer these learnings into real-world applications, for instance we are also testing this technology for adoption in light commercial vehicles.
In segments where the sound and feel of an engine are an integral part of the brand and driver experience, hydrogen combustion can be an interesting solution. It offers emotion and driving fun without burning fossil carbon. And again, it is not about choosing between fuel cell or hydrogen combustion. Different technologies will be needed for different jobs.
A multi-pathway approach sounds complex: many technologies, many powertrains, many variants. How do you manage this?
Timothy D’Herde: It would indeed be inefficient to develop each technology in its own silo. That is why we use a powertrain “building-block” concept. We standardize key components – batteries, power electronics, mechanical modules – so they can be used in several powertrain topologies. The battery in our Mirai fuel-cell vehicle, for example, is identical to the battery in one of our hybrid models. This approach reduces development effort and complexity while still allowing us to offer a broad portfolio of drivetrain options.
In your keynote you also refer to the Japanese concept of “Omotenashi”. What does it mean in the context of powertrain technologies?
Timothy D’Herde: “Omotenashi” stands for a deeply rooted mindset: absolute customer focus, respect and the ambition not just to meet expectations but to exceed them. Applied to our drivetrain strategy this means that we do not want to force customers into one specific technology; instead, we want to offer the technology that best matches their needs.
With today’s variety of options – self-charging hybrid, plug-in hybrid, BEV, fuel-cell vehicle and so on – this is a real consulting task. Our dealers need a very good understanding of everyday usage patterns and must be able to explain which drivetrain fits those patterns best. Only if product and usage truly match will customers be satisfied in the long run.
Finally, what do you expect from the discussions at the International Engine Congress?
Timothy D’Herde: I hope we can move beyond ideological disputes and focus on the physical and systemic facts: Where does each region stand in terms of power mix? Which infrastructure is realistic? How fast can supply chains for carbon-neutral fuels be built? And which technology mix leads to the lowest CO2 emissions under those conditions?
If the Engine Congress helps to strengthen this rational, fact-based view, it will be a valuable contribution – for policymakers, for industry and ultimately for customers.
